Ep 03. How to achieve your full physical potential with Nic Gill

Transcript

CAM HARPER

Welcome to Nutrition Mission with ANZCO Foods. My name is Cam Harper and I'm your host for Season 1, Beef, Lamb and Ironman, where we will be bringing you nutrition and good health from New Zealand's finest beef and lamb. Today we will be talking to professional strength and conditioning coach Dr Nicholas Gill about the importance of having the right training plan, which includes training, nutrition and recovery. Nic has been instrumental in the All Blacks success over the years. He's also coached Olympic athletes and many fellow endurance race competitors. Be sure to listen until the end for our sprint to the finish segment, where we do a series of quick-fire questions. Hi Nic, how are you?

NIC GILL

Yeah, I'm fantastic, thanks mate. I've had a really good sleep and I got up nice and early and I'm into the day. So now I'm bloody good.

CAM HARPER

Oh, it's fantastic when that kind of thing happens, you know, you're starting of the day, it's nice, put a sun on your back, hopefully, and get into it. So tell us about your background Nic and how did you become a professional strength and conditioning coach?

NIC GILL

Yeah, gee, good question. Probably long and involved but that's all good man, it's interesting stuff. I'll try and keep it short, I actually wanted to be a policeman when I was at school. Right up until my last year and I don't know, I developed a passion for exercise and health and I was really good at it at school in terms of the theory and things. And so I went to university and studied and decided just having one degree wasn't good enough. So I went and I loved being a student to be fair. So I was at university for about eight years. So I was a professional student before I was a professional coach. And yeah, I sort of I wanted to go to the Olympics and help people be great. And rugby came along and I sort of volunteered to help with the rugby team in Hamilton, helped with Waikato rugby. And.next minute I'm doing more and more rugby work and it became a job. So that's pretty much the short story.

CAM HARPER

That's fantastic. So where was university? Where did you go for that?

NIC GILL

I was in Dunedin at the University of Otago for four years. And then I went to Australia and did my PhD over there in human performance. I spent three or four years over there before I came back to New Zealand to try and get a job teaching. So I was between being a student and a coach, I was a teacher. So a lot of similarities between teaching and coaching, so it was a nice transition. So when you first turned up into professional rugby, you know, in this professional era, and it has evolved a heck of a lot since rugby did go professional well over 20 years ago now, but when you first turned up with the systems and the processes and your knowledge.

CAM HARPER

What was the reception like to that?

NIC GILL
Yeah, well, they were meant to be professional and they were a long way from being professional. So, yeah, it took a while for some of my thoughts and ideas and standards and expectations to be accepted. And I had a few roadblocks on my way, as you do. But as you say, rugby became professional in 96 and I started in rugby in 2000. So they'd only been having a crack at it for four years. They were still very amateur in everything they did, whether that's funding, resource, or just work ethic and professionalism around training and recovery and nutrition and all that. So I've sort of been a part of the journey where the athletes nowadays are extremely professional and it's a livelihood, it's a career pathway and if they do it well, they can do it for a long time. So yeah, there's been lots of evolution in all those areas since I started.

CAM HARPER

Now, you've worked with some right across the board, not just in All Black Rugby, but some very, very successful sportspeople. Can you give us a bit of background, please, on your coaching style and the methods you use for success?

NIC GILL

Yeah, well, gee, I get asked this a bit at the moment. Things have changed so much you know, especially for me as a coach, I think when I started, it was very much a do this, you know, and that was all. I tend to feel that, you know, it's my responsibility to plot the path. But I need to make sure that I coach the person and each person has their own background, their own stresses their own body that they're in, and I'm not in their body. So I think the collaboration between the coach and the athlete is really, really important. You know, and athletes don't always know what's right, but they do know what they're feeling, and I think that that's probably a really important part of the process is coach the person rather than the athlete and try to build a relationship where there's good collaboration. You build trust in each other. You know how to push buttons or how to pull back or when to pull back. So I think that's probably where I'm at at the moment in my coaching pathway.

CAM HARPER

That's incredible. And it's interesting you say that, Nic, because you do see, I mean, through watching Ironman racing and endurance sport where I'm heavily involved, as a fan and part of commentary teams and that kind of thing. I see some athletes that have so much talent, but they rely too much on the numbers and don't really listen to their bodies and what their body is telling them. And they kind of get that balance wrong. They need to have that relationship with their coach to actually say, look, you know what, this is not really working for me. We need to find some middle ground to get that extra bit of performance in the long run.

NIC GILL

Yeah, totally. And I think the fine line there is, especially in Ironman, gee, the fine line is, you know in certain phases of your program, you're meant to feel exhausted, you're meant to feel absolutely wrecked and your mind and your body will be telling you enough's enough. But I think more not listening to the body at that point but understanding the process that this is the point of the phase you're in. And that comes through good collaboration and communication between athlete and coach understanding I just need to put up with this for another week and then I'm on a taper. Chasing numbers can be very dangerous and often don't lead to the performance you're capable of.

CAM HARPER

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. So, look, we know you're no stranger to Ironman. I was just saying to you before we came on to the podcast that, you know, I've watched you perform at Nutrigrain Ironman New Zealand a couple of times and you're into the endurance sport and like you say, you like to get fit over some, which is fantastic. So you've done a few of them yourself that journey and how the right training and nutrition program plays a very important part for you.

NIC GILL

Yeah, okay. I've competed in triathlons since I was about 13, I think. I think the first triathlon I did was on a paper run bike. But showing my age. And, no, I've always loved the sport. I especially like the cycling side of it. I just love a challenge, that's what sort of gets me out of bed every day, is knowing that there's something scary on the horizon that I need to be ready for. And because I'm competitive, I don't want to ever do an Ironman and not try and do a personal best. So it's a bit of an issue for me really, because I am getting older, but I haven't started slowing down just yet, so that's good. I suppose, you know, through all my study, I thought I knew everything and so I used to train myself and for a while there I was training really hard and eating really poorly probably in my early 20s and just kept getting tired, just kept getting sick, wouldn't lose weight and you know I'd been at university for seven years so it was it was it was quite um humbling to understand that actually I do, there is lots I don't know. And that's why I've probably continued in academia is to keep learning because I don't think we all, any of us, even know everything and it's important to keep stimulating and learning so that's where experimentation comes from but I've had a coach I've had a couple of coaches over the years and they've helped me understand me, my body and what it takes and how to load and unload. And it sounds silly, but when you train yourself, you have on one shoulder, you've got a person telling you to do more on the other shoulder telling you, you do more, you're tired, but toughen up. And so you don't make good decisions yourself. And around nutrition, it took me a lot of reading actually to understand how I was best to respond to nutrition because I love food. Like man, I love food and to a point if I'm going to send my mum and dad for a roast on a Sunday, I can't go to their house for a roast unless I've been for a 90 minute run because when I get there I'm going to have about four plates of food. Dad, my dad doesn't mean roast beef and you know like I won't have one plateful, I'll have two or three. So I think the balance around training and not getting injured and doing all the things away from training that's right, and then eating correctly for you is really important. And I've experimented with everything, fasting, high fat, low carb, you name it. And I think what I've learned about myself is that it's actually just about making really good choices and generally eating real food. That's most important and for my training, it's about not always training hard. Training easy and slow is actually really, really good for me, especially as I get older. So, you know, being smart around both of those areas are really, really important.

CAM HARPER

Yeah, I couldn't agree more, Nic. And as we go through these podcasts and people I've talked to over the years, they've gone through all sorts of, like you say, all sorts of different experimentation in the way of diets and everything else. But at the end of the day, good whole foods get, takes you a long way. And talk to me specifically about the likes you're saying. Your dad cooks the mean roast beef, which is what a legend, right? But talk to me specifically about red meat, the likes of what ANZCO Foods have with beef and lamb, and talk us through that kind of thing.

NIC GILL

Oh look, I explain this to my daughters all the time. Actually, both my girls love red meat, which is really good. Except for the fact that dad normally has to always cook it for them. But I think nutrition is so important. And how I explain it to my girls is, if we're training for something and we're going to the gym, we're running, we're doing some physical activity, the muscles on our body are made of protein and it's really, really important that we have enough protein coming into our body to help the body repair and replenish the protein that we are basically trying to remodel. So training or physical activity is creating a stress and the body needs protein around to recover. And so, you know, red meat, beef, lamb, particularly, are a really important part of any nutrition program or nutrition sort of routine. And then the second thing is that it has a function, it has a purpose, and that's to provide the body with the nutrients that we need. You know, the iron that's in beef and lamb is crucial for our physiology, you know, to be able to do an Ironman, but forget about Ironman, just to be able to go for a run. You know, we need iron in our blood to live because it's such an important part of our oxygen transport chain. You know, and then you've got the protein benefit. So you know, all the literature suggests that, you know, we're needing little hits of protein regularly through the day. And in New Zealand, for some reason, we have this mentality of meat and three veg for dinner and otherwise we're not having a lot of protein.

CAM HARPER

Well, you know, I think if we think about where we've come from and our evolutionary pathways, having protein, you know, whether it's beef or lamb in our diet throughout the day is really, really important. And if you look at the programs you run with any athletes that you're advising or coaching, and you look at that pre-training event day and post-event, I mean, it was interesting if I just step back a little, our first podcast we did this season was with Nutrigrain Ironman New Zealand champions, Braden Currie and Hannah Berry, two people who you know. And they were talking about the importance of red meat for them right the way through. And very much so in the lead up in the last few days before an Ironman race. And then in the recovery from that as well, Braden kept talking about lamb shanks, I think he was talking about on the barbecue. And Hannah was into pretty much any bit of ANZCO red meat she could get her hands on. But all the way through those three phases, though, of pre-actual race day and recovery time. It's a real balance to make sure you're getting those good whole foods back in you to help your body get ready to perform and then recover.

NIC GILL

Yeah, I'm amongst a couple of legends there, aren't I? Those two are pretty special humans.

CAM HARPER

Yeah, they are. And hey, look, from my perspective, and they're obviously elite athletes and they're pushing the boundaries every day probably three or four hours training every single day of the year, which most of us would just like, just cringe about how do they do it. But I think that the key thing for me is that we triathlons moved to again, and the 30 years I've been doing it is we used to have this thing called carb loading and you know, you'd have a, your nutrition for the week of race week was very different to any other time of the season. Whereas nowadays people have realised actually if you've got your nutrition right every day of your life, like if you've got a really good nutrition plan or routine or some good habits where you're eating really good food all the time, you know, whole food, real food, Monday to Sunday, then in race week things shouldn't change too much. You know, if your race day should be no different to a big training day in terms of how you eat prior, during and after. And so, you know, what Hannah and Braden have said is sort of exactly that, where they're actually probably eating the meat they love eating through the week of Race Week, and particularly after the event, you know, having a celebratory barbecue with some lamb shanks.

I don't agree with Braden, I think lamb racks are way better than lamb shanks. That's actually my mistake, he was talking about the lamb rack. It's my mistake, lamb rack all day, every day. He'd probably only nibble on one though, like I'd have three or four. He's talking about he's got this recipe and he reckons it's like lollipops and just hands them around the kids and they like lollipops for them.

NIC GILL

Oh, how good, how good.

CAM HARPER

He backs his barbecuing skills though, the young fella. Gotta love it though, eh? I mean, for normal people, there's somebody who's looking to themselves, they listen to our podcast and going, I wanna get going, you know? I wanna get going, get into exercise and focus on good health and nutrition. I guess a quick explanation, why is it important for people to exercise and focus on good health and nutrition? I mean, what's a takeaway someone could take to actually get them off the couch and get them going?

NIC GILL

Yeah, I think, you know, everyone's different, but I think if you're on a couch and you're on the couch a lot, then that's probably explains something. You're not feeling energized, you're feeling like you're tired, you're feeling like you just can't be bothered. And I've been there, I go there all the time, it's sort of just normal. But I think having the tools and the knowledge to know what you need to do to get off the couch and how to go about it, like that's what most people lack is the how. Lots of people want to be healthy, lots of people want to eat well. Lots of people want to exercise, but how do you go about it? And I think the first thing is, first piece of advice for me would be, you know, walk before you run. So just take little steps and try and experiment with what you actually enjoy doing. You know, like if I was just told to go running every day and I had no reason to run, I wouldn't necessarily keep it up for long. But if I had an event or if I had a target of some sort, a goal of some sort, then I have some purpose and direction. So I think understanding what makes you enjoy exercise, and a lot of people hate exercise with a passion, and they do it just for, because they should. You know, when I first started exercising, it was because I loved food and I ate too much, so exercise was my way of earning more food. But we're all different. Now I just love, when I exercise, I love how I feel. You feel energized, confident, your mood's fantastic, you sleep well, you make better food choices. Exercise for me is like the lead domino of being healthy. And so when I have it in my day, I kick ass in my day. If I don't exercise, my day sort of, I stumble along. I crave bad food, I eat bad food. My workout book's probably not as high level as it could be. And all that comes down to hormones, endorphins. Movement is absolutely key for feeling great. And so that's the first thing is if you're on the couch, get off it, move a little bit. Have a think about, like, connect with how you feel. Connect with what you enjoy or don't enjoy. And then experiment and find something that you just can't wait to do every day. And some people that's jumping on a bike, some people that's going for a swim in the ocean, swimming around some islands and looking for fish, whatever it is, find something you love and keep doing it.

CAM HARPER

Now I think I probably know the question of this after we've been talking about barbecues, but you may have something else in mind Nic, but what would be your favourite beef and lamb recipe?

NIC GILL

Oh man, that's a tough one.

CAM HARPER

I know right, we're both food guys, you seem to burn it off better than me though.

NIC GILL
Bro, I'm gonna be a Braden here, I'm gonna blow my own trumpet. I do a mean, mean, slow lamb shoulder, slow cooked lamb shoulder. And I actually tried a slow cooked lamb leg the other night, bone in, which I couldn't find a decent recipe for, so I sort of invented one myself and it was outstanding, with a bit of a Greek sort of tinge to it, lemon juice, lots of herbs, it was outstanding. Blown my own trumpet a little bit. Beef, I just, I love it and I fill it on the barbecue. You know, it's sort of, both those meats, I like my meat tender and tasty. So, yeah, I love to cook, but yeah, I fill it on the barbie and slow lamb shoulder or leg is my go-to.

CAM HARPER

I see you in the very near future at NutriGrain Ironman New Zealand. I see you in a wee marquee over on the side with Nic Gill, Braden Currie, and Hannah Berry with a barbecue each just cooking, cooking ANZCO beef and lamb for the athletes as they come through. I can see it. I think it'd be a good thing and I'll definitely be the first customer. I'd probably be the second, third and fifth as well.

NIC GILL

Yeah, Braden can stick to the lollipops. I'll be going with like a lamb shoulder coleslaw, BAP or something like that. You know, people can walk around and really enjoy a decent meal rather than just a little lollipop.

CAM HARPER

I love it. Now finally Nic we always end with a sprint finish, and I say to everybody at Ironman I love watching a sprint finish, but Ironman athletes absolutely hate them don't they?

NIC GILL

Yeah no, not a fan of sprinting mate to be fair. We're going to go after a while, but we do have the sprint finish

CAM HARPER

I'm gonna ask you a few questions Nic and just answer the first thing that comes to your mind. You ready for this?

NIC GILL

How many questions?

CAM HARPER

There's five. Easy mate, easy. You ready? Are you a morning person or night person?

NIC GILL

Morning.

CAM HARPER

What's your favorite hobby that's not sport?

NIC GILL

Fishing. Love it.

CAM HARPER

Is nutrition an art or a science?

NIC GILL
Art.

CAM HARPER

Now you're off to a barbecue. What meat do you take?

NIC GILL

Well, I already said I fill it. But some lollipops like Braden is also second or first equal.

CAM HARPER

And how do you have your steak when it's done on the barbecue? How do you have that?

NIC GILL

Rare all day long. Rare. I love it.

CAM HARPER

Well, Nic, that's it. Thank you so much for your time today. Really, really appreciate it.

NIC GILL

No problem. Thanks for having me.

CAM HARPER

So we've made it to the finish line of our third podcast of Nutrition Mission with ANZCO Foods Season 1 Beef, Lamb and Ironman. Thanks Nic for joining us and thank you for tuning into Nutrition Mission with ANZCO Foods. If you enjoyed our podcast and want to find out more, head to anzcofoods.com/ironman for more insights and news. Make sure you tune in next time when we'll be talking to coach John Newsome to get some performance inspiration along with tips on what it takes to become an elite athlete.